Ex-City lawyer moves to investor relations via a bank
This week we spoke to Emma Parr, who trained at Clifford Chance and qualified into the investment banking and private equity team of their corporate department. At 18m pqe she moved to do investment banking at UBS, where she worked for two years. She is now working in investor relations and corporate development at Mapeley, which is a FTSE 250 property company that focuses on the acquisition, ownership and management of a diverse portfolio of properties.
mtl: Hi Emma, tell us about your legal career.
Emma: I always wanted to go into law. While I was studying it I thought about becoming a barrister, but paying my own way through bar school and being self-employed didn’t really appeal. I joined Clifford Chance instead and particularly liked the business side of law. I qualified into the corporate department and really enjoyed the work.
mtl: So if you liked Clifford Chance, what made you want to leave?
Emma: I was head-hunted to do corporate finance at UBS when I was 18m qualified. I had eight interviews and a maths test and was then offered a job. The commercial side of law had always appealed and I wanted to get closer to the centre of the deals. Deep down I found the lawyer’s role frustrating as it was reactive and we never knew the full story. I had the right post-qualification experience to make the move and had worked with UBS bankers before, so I knew that they were nice people and that the culture there would work for me.
It was very hard to leave Clifford Chance as my colleagues were great and the firm had a very supportive environment. I didn’t leave law under a dark cloud, though I felt that I was letting people down, as they had invested in my training. However I was also incredibly excited about becoming a banker.
I worked in the mid-market group of the UK investment banking team at UBS, looking after companies with a market cap of £1.5 billion and below. My role was split between corporate broking and executing M&A and equity capital markets transactions.
The job was great and I really liked the work and my colleagues. Working in a bank is very different to working in a law firm though. Firms have a very collegiate atmosphere and a good support network. In contrast you have to look after yourself in a bank and manage your own development. People don’t chase you to learn or to go to training, though they are there to assist you when you initiate it yourself.
I learnt a huge amount in my two years there including financial, accounting and advanced computer skills, commercial and sector specific knowledge and wider city skills including building and maintaining relationships with regulators and other advisers.
I was also exposed to many different roles in the City that you don’t see as a lawyer, and I made a lot of contacts. I worked with PR advisors and got to know their tools of the trade, as well as strategy advisers and specialist consultants. The companies I worked with had fairly small teams, so I regularly dealt with directors, CEO’s and CFO’s. The senior bankers have so much experience behind them and it was a great experience to learn from them. The days were so intense that I settled in within about three months.
mtl: So why did you leave UBS?
Emma: I left after two years because of the lifestyle – I realised that the hours weren’t going to get much better over the short-term. I was finding it difficult to maintain a work-life balance and decided that as I wouldn’t be doing the job in another five years, I should try to find something else sooner rather than later. I wanted to stay in the City and be exposed to the mechanics of it, while maintaining a lifestyle balance.
I was tempted to work at a hedge fund. However I wasn’t sure that it would give me the lifestyle change or the dynamic workplace environment that I enjoyed at both Clifford Chance and UBS, as they tend to be much smaller and people often work alone or in very small teams. |
Career timeline
1996-1999 Law, University of Leeds | 1999-2000 LPC, College of Law, York | 2000-2002 Training contract, Clifford Chance | 2002-2004 Corporate department, Clifford Chance | 2004-2006 Corporate finance, UBS | June 2006 Moved to Mapeley
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At UBS I had good exposure to the buy-side and really enjoyed working on aspects of the job which involved the investment community. “Investor relations” involves managing the relationships with shareholders and potential shareholders and safeguarding the perception of the company in the City, by working with research analysts and often journalists. It is something you can move to easily from corporate broking. I really enjoy the interaction with investors, so that was my main motivation. I used a specialist agency to make my move and decided to go to a corporate, rather than an agency or a bank, so that I could specialise with one sector and one company after having been a generalist for a long time.
"People see a legal background as one of the best foundation backgrounds you can have and there is a lot of demand for people with these skills. You might not be able to secure all the concerns you have about a new role before moving, but nothing is forever and you can always change again if it doesn’t work out." |
Mapeley is a young property company that was only listed on the stock exchange in June 2005, and there is a lot of potential growth for the business. The real estate sector is very exciting at the moment as there is so much going on, particularly with the introduction of Real Estate Investment Trusts next year. Fortunately I already had some experience of the sector from working at UBS. I work closely with the CEO and CFO, who are both young, dynamic and easy to get on with.
I manage and maintain relationships with sell-side analysts at banks and Mapeley’s shareholders and potential shareholders. I deal with questions about Mapeley’s strategy, financials and business model. It is rare for property companies to use the equity markets frequently but Mapeley does and it is my responsibility to coordinate its equity fundraisings, so I still get to play at being a banker. I also coordinate and organise the process for quarterly results and the production and drafting of annual and interim reports, investor days and results presentations. |
I am now generally in control of my lifestyle. Obviously there are times which are hectic e.g. leading up to results, on an equity raise or if something significant happens in the market. I still tend to start early but am generally out at 6.30pm and any later is the exception rather than the rule. I travel to New York about every two months as a large proportion of our investor base is there. There is a creative side to the job in that I am always looking at better ways to portray the business and to wider corporate opportunities and I am involved in the day to day management of the business.
mtl: What are you plans for the future?
Emma: I love what I do and can’t imagine doing something that wasn’t as involved in the business as this job is. I am very happy at Mapeley and there is so much happening that I can’t see myself getting bored in the near future. I am very lucky to be in a job that I really enjoy, while working with great people in an exciting sector. You can never say never, but I couldn’t imagine going back to law. I do look back on it fondly though and wouldn’t change my previous career path. It was a great platform for a City career and gave me good skills for approaching problems.
mtl: Do you have any tips on moving to a bank or getting into investor relations?
Emma: Lawyers are risk averse but remember that your next move doesn’t have to be permanent. People see a legal background as one of the best foundation backgrounds you can have and there is a lot of demand for people with these skills. You might not be able to secure all the concerns you have about a new role before moving, but nothing is forever and you can always change again if it doesn’t work out. There is undoubtedly a nice environment in firms, but there are also so many different things out there which will lead to other opportunities. Once you have changed career, it is much easier to change a second time.
I know it is difficult to find the time to plan a career change because legal jobs are so demanding, so you will need to make a real effort if you want to move. Talk to as many people as possible about their jobs. The grass isn’t always greener... However, you can always go back to law, so there isn’t really any risk. One thing I would say is that if you want to move to an investment bank, you should do this within two years of qualifying, as banks get nervous about your ability to change and start form scratch after that.
If you are interested in investment banking then think about your reasons for leaving. If you want to do more interesting work, then I would say go for it (no offence meant Clifford Chance)! If your reasons for wanting to get out of law are lifestyle-related then think long and hard because it is not true that bankers have a better lifestyle. There are in fact more demands and more deals going on at any one time. There is some debate as to whether bankers or lawyers work harder, and from my experience I can say that the bankers very often do.
Don’t underestimate what a big change it is to swap words for numbers. You feel stupid for quite a while, so you have to be able to deal with that. You go from being a respected lawyer to feeling embarrassed about not being able to do things and having to learn with people much younger than yourself. However for me the work was so interesting that it was worth doing and I have absolutely no regrets. Although I have to warn you that the FSA exams are horrendous!
To do what I do now, you need financial skills, so I’m not sure that there would be a direct route into it from law. If you are looking at other options in the City, then hedge funds are always really keen to hire lawyers. I think that my job at Mapeley is a good example of how you can move to a role that you may never have known about without leaving law – new opportunities open up to you if you are prepared to explore and take risks…
mtl: Thank you very much for your time and good luck with your job.
If you know any other ex-lawyers who have gone and done something interesting or unusual with their lives then please get in touch.
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